When I first spoke with Jamie Hale I was instantly at ease. It could have been his welcoming nature or perhaps it was that darn southern accent that made me feel right at home. Regardless I was excited to have some swapping of words on various subjects. We talked about perspective, skepticism, and the importance of solid research. That conversation left me wanting more, so what follows is just that.

Leigh Peele-Today I got hit in the face with the ridiculous guidelines that are being given by the new Physic Clinic by T-nation “no tomatoes and better be scared of the 2 carbs in a piece of sugar free gum”. Why do you think it has gotten to this point Coach Hale? And what is the best way to tell someone who has been lead down this road of being obsessed over the carbs in a tomato that are trying to get back on a sane eating path?

Jamie Hale-People do not like to think for themselves. If they actually thought for themselves the majority of fitness and nutrition gurus would be out of business. Many people have been taught what to think but not how to think.

I would hope the best way to cure this problem would be to show them evidence that indicates facts. But it does not seem to be that simple. We still have to keep striving to produce fact based information and destroy the dogmatism.

Leigh Peele-Agreed. When it comes to fact based information the majority of fitness professionals don’t even realize what that is. It’s just picking a cert, take a course, read a book, oh and get that CPR course done. Let’s say there is a professional out there that just didn’t know any better, that like most didn’t really think there was anything to challenge. Where would you suggest them to start to help improve their knowledge and outlooks?

Jamie Hale-I would suggest they contact other professionals they admire in the field. This can be a double-edged sword if you begin to rely on their suggestions too much (appeal to authority) without seeing the evidence. Only after checking the statements of the authority numerous times should you begin to consider their word as fact without actually seeing the evidence (still questionable).

I would advise beginning trainers and coaches to look into the Primary Research Data and listen to sources that are able to provide evidence and logic for their explanations. With that being said, it is a myth that we can be skeptical all the time as this simply would require too much time. If trainers would learn the basics of logic and rhetoric they would save themselves much time and money.

Another issue to consider when in attempt to gain knowledge is why do you seek knowledge? If you seek knowledge to make yourself a better personal trainer or if you are interested in becoming a better science writer, the knowledge required is significantly different. The everyday approach to knowledge acquisition is quite different than the scientific approach. This is just as a quasi-experiment is different than a true experiment. One of the key aspects to being a successful personal trainer is to possess good communication and motivational skills.

Leigh Peele-Very true what you say, it’s all about the want feeding the need and going with your desires. What drives you most Coach? What about this field and your place in it get you out of that bed every morning?

Jamie Hale-At the moment I am really excited about a new cd I received from Dan Moore containing 200 full studies. Actually some of the data are reviews, minibooks etc.. I get up each morning and look at my forums (MaxCondition, Practical Scientist, Knowledge and Nonsense) and answer my e-mails. I also look through information I collected on the previous day (highlighted section). I spent the majority of my day investigating, and discussing Primary Research Data. Currently I am also spending a great deal of time looking at different types of logic. I am also working on some information that will help people in the fitness industry learn how to construct valid arguments and identify logical fallacies.

Below I have included the basic system I use for learning. Let’s assume that you have already decided the data has proven valid. Discussing the sources of the information and whether they are valid or not is a different discussion. Let’s stick to discussing what strategies are used to retain and understand the correct data you are investigating.

My general Learning method:

-Read the information and highlight key points.
-Look at references provided in the paper
-Look up the definitions of any words that I am unsure of their meanings (abbreviated notes on the paper concerning definitions, discussing with colleagues)
-2nd reading involves reviewing and analyzing highlighted points and definitions
-3rd reading, before the third reading I put the info away for 2-3 days and review highlights again
-At this point I have formed a mental picture (similar to concept map) and I review the concepts randomly through out the day
-If I am having problems understanding the concepts or quickly recalling what I have learned I will read again and look further into more studies regarding similar or the same subject matter.
-Once I feel like my comprehension of the material is adequate I began writing on the topic if I am really interested (I have learned a great deal through writing)

Once every few months I pick some material at random that I have collected and read the highlights and highlighted references again. If I have a hard time recalling the information presented in the paper the process begins again. Sometimes I will read the entire paper again, but most of the time I start with the strategy I mentioned involving the 2nd reading.

I think in order to fully understand and be able to apply the newly attained information to various situations it is important to have visual cues. I like concept maps written on paper as well as concept maps I form in my mind. For me Rote style of learning does not really enhance long term memory or apply to new-problem solving situations.

My biggest drive comes from the passion to further enhance my knowledge and critical thinking skills.

Leigh Peele-Talk about a map for learning! I have to say I might even start to use that approach in my research, I somewhat lack that organized manner and it can leave me jumping from analyzing joint inflammation issues to the effects of casein post workout. I sit back and go�how the hell did I get here?

Of all that you wrote there is one thing that really jumped out at me when you stated “you learned a great deal from writing”. I have to agree 100% it is one of the reasons I love writing because the research I put in always leads me to new knowledge. Since you recently released the book “Knowledge and Nonsense” I can assume a lot of new finds came out of that. Can you give a run down of what the book is about?

Jamie Hale-There was a great deal of things I discovered when writing Knowledge and Nonsense. I looked into subjects that I had not really considered investigating before. It also took a while to write the introduction to the book (advise from Alan Aragon). The introduction to the book gives readers my suggestions on navigating the book. It’s not everyday you purchase a Fitness book that is almost 500 pages long. The instructions in the introduction make the book relatively easy to navigate. The table of contents and index also make the book user friendly. This book provides something for everyone. To demonstrate the wide diversity of the book consider the two indexes: Biochemistry and Genetics and Vertical Jump Enhancement. After reading this book you will be armed with the proper artillery to argue with anyone about Exercise and Nutrition. Below is an abbreviated table of contents (table of contents in the book much larger).

Ch 1- Basic Nutrition
Ch 2- Popular Diets: the science (approximately 43 diets reviewed)
Ch 3- Bodybuilder Nutrition Roundtable (features 8 nutrition advisors)
Ch 4- Hormones
Ch 5- Nutrition: Fact or Fiction
Ch 6- Muscular Bioenergetic Pathways & Muscle Fiber Types
Ch 7- Kinesiology and Biomechanics
Ch 8- Training for Skeletal Muscle Growth
Ch 9- Exercise: Fact or Fiction

This book destroys much of the popular bodybuilding and fitness dogma. In the chapters that discuss Exercise and Nutrition: Fact or Fiction, 114 topics are discussed.

Leigh Peele-Not only no nonsense book but jesus a book chalk full of page after page of no nonsense. You certainly aren’t lacking volume of material.

Jamie, a lot of my readers teeter on that edge of really going after the science of things. These aren’t just the weekend warriors either; these are some fitness professionals as well. What can you tell someone on that edge of the truth and great knowledge to get him or her to dive in? How can understanding WHY you do something make you better at it in your mind when it comes to training?

Jamie Hale-It’s fun to discover the truth. It’s fun to be able to shoot down the Type 2 SS (supplement salesman) or the gym guru who tells everyone in the gym what to do. With a basic knowledge of the Primary Research Data this is possible. With a basic understanding of logic (science of reasoning, thinking, proof or inference) you will be able to see through the rhetoric often used by the fitness industry.

I don’t think that understanding a particular exercise will necessarily make you better at it. But it will probably help with the overall training regimen. If you understand the mechanics and different modes of training you can tailor the movements (and the placement of movements in the workout) to meet your specific needs. Although I don’t think most trainees are really interested in why they do things they just want someone to tell them what to do. On the other end some athletes may be too analytical and this can be detrimental. I think this was one of my biggest problems as an athlete. I was speaking with one of my old baseball coaches a few days ago and he told me I was the fastest person on the bases he had seen, but I was uncoachable. My Boxing and Olympic Weightlifting coaches told me the same thing.

Leigh Peele-It would seem Jamie that you are just too smart for your own good then. I am sure this is a phrase you will hear often in your life.

I am starting a new section that I am adding on to the end of my interviews titled “The Pro and the Case Client”. I give you the case and you give me what you would do in a training aspect to help them with their problem.

Case Client #002-”Training A.D.D Guy”

Client #002 has a problem with making advances in his training because each week he reads some new technique, method, or program that he just must try. He also gets highly bored with training routines in general and is a classic case gym floater. Because of all this sketchy training he has really no true ability in strength or core function and should really no go beyond the basis of bodyweight movement. He also has a desire to do various show moves like pistols and one arm push ups. How would you guide Client #002? What would you say to him to get him on track and to keep him on a program and how much of a problem is A.D.D training? Is it a problem at all?

Jamie Hale-I would ask the client for his/her preference of movements. I would suggest the client follow a training regimen that emphasizes various motor qualities and targets the particular qualities they are most concerned with. If the client really loves variety and becomes bored easily I would suggest we stick to some core movements for a specified period, but change the accessory movements often. This allows some consistency while at the same time allowing variety to deal with the boredom factor. With most of my training programs there is a fair amount of variety but yet enough consistency that we can track specific increases in strength and total work (per movement). I don’t think it is unusual to run into a client who is always looking for change. I must admit I have fallen victim to this myself lately.

Leigh Peele-Excellent coach, I think we have all fallen victim of this but making sure to track change and progress is obviously the key to actual progress. I can’t thank you enough for the time you have taken and in my mind this is just a part 1. With your book being so filled with information I can assure you there will be a part 2 coming up.

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To Purchase Knowledge and Nonsense go click to add to cart below. I assure you this is almost as primo as it gets for information you really need to know.

To find out more about Coach Hale check out his site here at http://www.maxcondition.com